
A reply to the Good Reverend:
The Rev said...
"OK, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.
Putting the steroid guys in the hall of fame is certainly debatable, and I for one would not shed tears if Barry Bonds didn't go in.
But putting Maris in is a little bit much. We're talking about a career .260 hitter that didn't even get over 300 homers in his career.
Greg Luzinski had far better numbers in his career in each of those categories, but the only way he's getting into the hall is with a ticket. If you put Maris in, then guys like Luzinski have a case.
Roger Maris was a one year wonder. Granted, it was a year that was memorable and no one should forget it. But he's not a hall of famer.
One last note... hall of famers are not built on one great season.
If they were, then we'd see guys like Cecil Fielder, George Foster, and Brady Anderson in the hall. And none of them deserve it.
I love what Roger Maris did as much as anyone. But hall of fame is too much..."
Jeezus Christ, Rev!...This is MY house!..The nerve of you to come in here and think you can challenge me! You on steroids or sumpthin'?!?!
All kidding aside, let me see if I can explain my stance on this so you might be able to see exactly where I'm comin' from....
First, I think we can all agree that MLB is in shambles as far as the effect that "The Steroid Era" has had on the integrity and credibility of the history of the game. Since the future of the game is in question and its past has always been so important to its very existence, something needs to be done to help heal these wounds. "Damage Control", if you will, and I think putting Maris in the Hall is a helluva start.
Anybody that knows anything about Maris knows what he went through back in 1961 and I think I've probably gone over that enough in case they didn't. Not only was a good and honorable man maligned during that period for having the nerve to knock a god-like icon (Ruth) off of his throne in his own castle by playing by the same rules as everyone else did, his achievement and legacy was tarnished 37 years later by not one, but two individuals (Mcguire/Sosa) who were allowed to cheat in doing so.
There is a time and a place for everything, as they say, and whether or not Maris' stats over his career are comparable to anyone else in the Hall or out of it is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that it was HIS record that was the catalyst for men to go to ANY means necessary to capture that Holy Grail..even if it meant breaking the rules. By denying Maris his rightful place in the Hall and even discussing the merits of Bonds, Clemens, Mcguire etal., is not only an egregeous insult to Maris, but to me as a fan. Furthermore, it's also an insult to the ballplayers you mentioned.
Baseball needs a symbol. Now more than ever and as quick as possible to start the healing. That symbol doesn't necessarily need to come from a ballplayer that attains Ruthian heights as much as it does a symbol of a man who played the game by the rules. In Maris...They have BOTH.
In summary:
"...If you put Maris in, then guys like Luzinski have a case..."
The guys that preceded "The Steroid Era" should ALL have their cases strengthened as a result of this mess.
"... Putting the steroid guys in the hall of fame is certainly debatable..."
The fact that anyone thinks it's "debatable" is rather disconcerting to me. They cheated.
"...One last note... hall of famers are not built on one great season. If they were, then we'd see guys like Cecil Fielder, George Foster, and Brady Anderson in the hall. And none of them deserve it.
No, Hall of Famers are NOT built on one great season but yet you feel that guys like Mcguire and Bonds etal., who used PED's for MOST of their careers are.. debatable?!?!
As far as Fielder, Foster and Anderson...None of those guys ever had the season Maris did. In fact, to this day, NO ONE has legally. (No one will ever be able to convince me that Anderson wasn't doin' 'em, btw)
Granted, it was a year that was memorable and no one should forget it. But he's not a hall of famer...""...
Maybe not before "The Steroid Era" but because of it. And since you mention it, perhaps putting him in the HOF would insure that "no one should forget it.."
"...I love what Roger Maris did as much as anyone. But Hall of fame is too much..."
Sadly, It might not be enough... For Major League Baseball OR Maris. When the first steroid violator goes in, The Hall won't be good enough for him. If you think its "too much" for him now wait 'til it sinks in onya that he's "too much" for IT...
....It needs him NOW.
1 comments:
Wow... I merited front page on The Jammy. I'm touched.
I'll answer what you said one by one. This is gonna be long.
"First, I think we can all agree that MLB is in shambles as far as the effect that "The Steroid Era" has had on the integrity and credibility of the history of the game."
Agreed.
"Anybody that knows anything about Maris knows what he went through back in 1961 and I think I've probably gone over that enough in case they didn't."
I know it well. Maris went through more crap that he had a right to.
"Not only was a good and honorable man maligned during that period for having the nerve to knock a god-like icon (Ruth) off of his throne in his own castle by playing by the same rules as everyone else did, his achievement and legacy was tarnished 37 years later by not one, but two individuals (Mcguire/Sosa) who were allowed to cheat in doing so."
Agreed again. Though I do believe McGwire used substances that were legal over the counter enhancers. I have not seen real proof that he used illegal substances yet. If you want to believe what Jose Canseco says, go ahead.
"What IS relevant is that it was HIS record that was the catalyst for men to go to ANY means necessary to capture that Holy Grail..even if it meant breaking the rules. "
Agreed. Maris set the bar that they chased. No question.
"Baseball needs a symbol. Now more than ever and as quick as possible to start the healing."
Now here's where I slightly disagree. I think we have enough symbols in the hall already. Guys like Hank Aaron... Willie Mays... Mike Schmidt... Babe Ruth. The hall has those symbols that we can still look to and feel a sense of pride.
I think you'll find that you and I agree on most things here. But one fundamental difference we have is that I believe putting Maris in the hall won't heal any wounds. These wounds are too damn deep now. All that would do is put a guy in the hall who doesn't measure up for his overall career. It wouldn't heal a thing. The wounds would still be there and they wouldn't go away.
But just for the record...
Bonds
McGwire
Clemens
Maris
Right at this moment, I'm probably picking Maris over those guys. But just when you put it in that context at this point in time.
When you look at it this way...
Tim Raines
Andre Dawson
Jim Rice
Roger Maris
I'm picking all 3 of those guys over Maris. And I'm not exactly sold on Rice being in either.
One last thing... putting a cheater in the hall has already been done before. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker used to conspire to throw baseball games. And they're in the hall. You can't condemn one set of cheaters and then celebrate another pair.
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