STILL... Hammerin' Roger...

The following is in answer to The Rev's comments in the previous post:

Fair enuff. And I understand what you're sayin'.


In my mind for some reason, I see Maris as someone who represents "The Forgotten Man", if you will, in this whole debacle. To me he represents a better time for the game.

We can talk about a handful of ballplayers who cheated in the past and discuss character issues 'til the crack of dawn. I'm trying to narrow this whole thing down because of the vast dynamics involved and it is difficult. But I'll try.


Whenya get right down to it, this whole thing is about, "The Long Ball", "The Home-Run", "Goin' Yard",etc. It's always been the most instant game-changing, almost majestic moment in a baseball game. What I don't want future generations to forget is that when it's all said and done, that Maris is the guy that did it best, most in one year, and fairest of any of 'em.

I find it sooo disconcerting that during the time he chased Ruth, he was so unfairly villified and yet 35 some years later, Mcguire and Sosa were embraced. And between all three of them, Maris is the only one we feel reasonably certain about that didn't do PED's. To put it in a more fundamental way...We have little doubt that Maris was REAL. And no matter what anyone says...his home-runs were not fraudulent. This game needs to remember and acknowledge that. It needs to make a statement that MLB is about fair-play and I think people and fans have not been fair in their regard for Maris and if putting him in the Hall before the steroid era occurred was debateable, to me, it becomes a no-brainer afterward.

I'm not saying that putting him in would be a panacea. What I AM saying is that MLB needs a feel-good story. A glimmer of hope that "The Great American Pastime" still has it's values. I think Roger Maris represents those and is the best candidate to make that statement.

If there was ever a time that a ballplayer transcended conventional thinking about entrance into the Hall of Fame, it is now. Call it symbolic, call it "an old dude longing for the past", maudlin or what have you because, it's all those things.

And if you don't "long for the past" after all this...You just weren't THERE....

..I was...Me, Roger AND Hank.

I am.......OUUUUUUUTTTT.

Fix it.

A reply to the Good Reverend:

The Rev said...

"OK, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Putting the steroid guys in the hall of fame is certainly debatable, and I for one would not shed tears if Barry Bonds didn't go in.

But putting Maris in is a little bit much. We're talking about a career .260 hitter that didn't even get over 300 homers in his career.

Greg Luzinski had far better numbers in his career in each of those categories, but the only way he's getting into the hall is with a ticket. If you put Maris in, then guys like Luzinski have a case.

Roger Maris was a one year wonder. Granted, it was a year that was memorable and no one should forget it. But he's not a hall of famer.

One last note... hall of famers are not built on one great season.

If they were, then we'd see guys like Cecil Fielder, George Foster, and Brady Anderson in the hall. And none of them deserve it.

I love what Roger Maris did as much as anyone. But hall of fame is too much..."



Jeezus Christ, Rev!...This is MY house!..The nerve of you to come in here and think you can challenge me! You on steroids or sumpthin'?!?!

All kidding aside, let me see if I can explain my stance on this so you might be able to see exactly where I'm comin' from....

First, I think we can all agree that MLB is in shambles as far as the effect that "The Steroid Era" has had on the integrity and credibility of the history of the game. Since the future of the game is in question and its past has always been so important to its very existence, something needs to be done to help heal these wounds. "Damage Control", if you will, and I think putting Maris in the Hall is a helluva start.

Anybody that knows anything about Maris knows what he went through back in 1961 and I think I've probably gone over that enough in case they didn't. Not only was a good and honorable man maligned during that period for having the nerve to knock a god-like icon (Ruth) off of his throne in his own castle by playing by the same rules as everyone else did, his achievement and legacy was tarnished 37 years later by not one, but two individuals (Mcguire/Sosa) who were allowed to cheat in doing so.

There is a time and a place for everything, as they say, and whether or not Maris' stats over his career are comparable to anyone else in the Hall or out of it is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that it was HIS record that was the catalyst for men to go to ANY means necessary to capture that Holy Grail..even if it meant breaking the rules. By denying Maris his rightful place in the Hall and even discussing the merits of Bonds, Clemens, Mcguire etal., is not only an egregeous insult to Maris, but to me as a fan. Furthermore, it's also an insult to the ballplayers you mentioned.

Baseball needs a symbol. Now more than ever and as quick as possible to start the healing. That symbol doesn't necessarily need to come from a ballplayer that attains Ruthian heights as much as it does a symbol of a man who played the game by the rules. In Maris...They have BOTH.



In summary:

"...If you put Maris in, then guys like Luzinski have a case..."
The guys that preceded "The Steroid Era" should ALL have their cases strengthened as a result of this mess.

"... Putting the steroid guys in the hall of fame is certainly debatable..."

The fact that anyone thinks it's "debatable" is rather disconcerting to me. They cheated.

"...One last note... hall of famers are not built on one great season. If they were, then we'd see guys like Cecil Fielder, George Foster, and Brady Anderson in the hall. And none of them deserve it.

No, Hall of Famers are NOT built on one great season but yet you feel that guys like Mcguire and Bonds etal., who used PED's for MOST of their careers are.. debatable?!?!

As far as Fielder, Foster and Anderson...None of those guys ever had the season Maris did. In fact, to this day, NO ONE has legally. (No one will ever be able to convince me that Anderson wasn't doin' 'em, btw)

Granted, it was a year that was memorable and no one should forget it. But he's not a hall of famer...""...

Maybe not before "The Steroid Era" but because of it. And since you mention it, perhaps putting him in the HOF would insure that "no one should forget it.."


"...I love what Roger Maris did as much as anyone. But Hall of fame is too much..."

Sadly, It might not be enough... For Major League Baseball OR Maris. When the first steroid violator goes in, The Hall won't be good enough for him. If you think its "too much" for him now wait 'til it sinks in onya that he's "too much" for IT...

....It needs him NOW.

Da Stevo: Still Goin' ta Bat fer Roger...Maris, that is...

Now, I know this is gettin' old...But Hell, its free...Here's a comment I made on some cat's blog on Fox Sports...The guy, Divineswine has some pretty good takes on all this mess..

From Da Stevo:

"Amnesty is probably the only way to put this behind us...Of course, giving the ballplayers amnesty plays right into the controversy of "the privileged" vs "the normal guy"..You know, the misconception in this country where "all men are created equal", and we know they're not. Without getting into it passionately, I'll just say that most of us would face a different avenue if we did something illegally and I don't think there's any question about that....Such are the cards we're dealt.

I can only speak for myself and as a lifelong baseball fan who fancy's himself as a "student" of the history of the game, the only thing I can say is, I wish it hadn't happened, and go on with my life.

I'm a pretty positive guy and the only solace or consolation I have is having to accept the fact that this dark period is what it is...an aberration...And the fact that it just makes the guys I came-up with as a fan...look that much better.

Having said that, I'm gonna take this opportunity and once again, put in a plug for Roger Maris' induction into the Hall. I think it's the ideal time to do so in that I think it would be an incredibly effective statement as to the seriousness of healing and give future generations an idea of how the game use to be played...

Maris gets larger and larger(sans steroids) to me with each passing day of this debacle and if you don't think so..ask yourself THIS question:

"If I had to put one of these people in the Hall NOW:
Mark Mcguire
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Roger Maris

Who wouldya check?"...

(more Fox comments)